Notifications
Mark all as read
Site Proposals

Welcome to Codidact Meta!

Codidact Meta is the meta-discussion site for the Codidact community network and the Codidact software. Whether you have bug reports or feature requests, support questions or rule discussions that touch the whole network – this is the site for you.

Site suggestion - Code Golf

+15
−1

Update: launched.


It's probably okay to request a new site here. If so, I suggest there to be a Code Golf site. TopAnswers has a Code Golf site, and evidently there is a large amount of core users there.

Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.
Why should this post be closed?

6 comments

Do members of the Code Golf communities (SE and/or TA) want to have one here too, like to be able to compare options? If the community is happy on TopAnswers then I wouldn't want to interfere with that, but we're happy to set up a community here if that's what the people involved want. Monica Cellio‭ 7 months ago

They probably want to have one here too. Codidact is one of the move-on options here, so it's probably a nice idea to have a site here. Also they definitely want to be here. 2x-1‭ 7 months ago

Also, for the record, from my initial assessment it seems the community has gone mostly inactive for a number of days now. ozewski‭ 7 months ago

@Monica Cellio‭ I noticed that you've added status-pending to some site suggestions such as this one. What does this mean specifically, since it is apparently different from status-needs-people? Lundin‭ 26 days ago

@Lundin status-pending means we're planning to launch it. We think the CG proposal has enough interested, enthusiastic users to launch. status-needs-people means we don't think there are enough people yet to support a proposed site; it's a call to action to say you're interested (if you are) and share the proposal with likely participants. Monica Cellio‭ 22 days ago

Show 1 more comments

7 answers

+7
−0

Based on new comments here, I had a conversation with some folks in the Nineteenth Byte on Discord to ask them about their interests and needs. I pointed out the TopAnswers site, which some of them were not aware of, and pointed them to this proposal. There seems to be interest in having a community here too, alongside TopAnswers; I'll start the "who's in" post after making this one.

The golfers I talked with expressed the following desires:

  • A leaderboard for challenges. On SE they do this with a userscript, so there's some code already. (Obviously our dev team has to code-review anything we install here, just as they did for the Sefaria Linker on Judaism.) There was a suggestion to make it user-triggerable rather than auto-running on page load, particularly for challenges with many answers. I have created a GitHub issue for the leaderboard; our developers assessed it as hard, but maybe I missed something important in writing it up. Golfers, please weigh in there on needs and/or if you can help implement it.

  • An API to fetch answers would help improve the aforementioned leaderboard code.

  • Challenges would be in their own category (there are other types of questions). In addition to the other category-specific customizations this would allow, a separate category means the leaderboard would only need to be enabled there. This category can be set as the site default (like Q&A is on other sites).

  • A sandbox for challenges, using the article post type (because feedback should be comments only). The idea is that challenges get refined in the sandbox, and when ready the author copies and pastes the final version into a new post in the challenges category. We talked about moving the post instead, but this would mean (a) bringing the comments along with it (and then having to delete them) and (b) not being able to use the article post type to enforce "no answers, just feedback" in the sandbox. (We can move posts, but we can't transform them along the way.) Deleting the comments might not seem like a big deal, but there was a sense that sometimes keeping the sandbox history, at least temporarily, could be useful. With the code as it is now, this seemed the most workable approach in our conversation. Future code developments could improve this workflow.

Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

15 comments

"Golf challenges would be in their own category (there are other types of questions)." Will you also make a category for King of the Hill, Cops and Robbers, etc.? I feel like it'd get out of hand quickly. Why not just use tags? Moshi‭ about 1 month ago

@Moshi or maybe it's all challenges and I misunderstood? The idea was one category for challenges, which have different rules from Q&A about golfing etc, and which are the only ones that use a leaderboard. Edited to just say "challenges". Monica Cellio‭ about 1 month ago

@MonicaCellio Code Golfing is a type of challenge. I'd suggest having Challenges, Sandbox, and Meta as categories, and then having code-golf etc. as tags Moshi‭ about 1 month ago

Actually, now that I think about it, can sites even remove the Q&A category in the first place? Moshi‭ about 1 month ago

@Moshi it could be renamed. Monica Cellio‭ about 1 month ago

Show 10 more comments
+6
−0

Right now we don't have a good way of identifying people who would help build a new community, so let's do this: if you are interested in helping to build this site, please leave a comment describing your level of interest (casual visitor, enthusiast, expert in this topic within the site's scope, something else?), or edit the post directly. I'll edit comments into the post later.

  • I'm interested as an enthusiast. Somewhat longtime participant of the original CGCC. — ‭Quintec

  • Interested as enthusiast/expert (whatever that means for code-golfing); Participated a lot on PPCG/CGCC. — ‭dzaima

  • Interested as enthusiast. — ‭manassehkatz‭

  • Interested as enthusiast — ‭Lyxal‭

  • Interested as enthusiast. Wasn't the most active on PPCG/CGCC, but i did answer several challenges, and enjoy seeing what answers people come up with. — ‭moony

  • Interested as an enthusiast. — ‭Razetime‭

  • I'd likely use the site occasionally, as I have the SE site in the past. — ‭msh210

  • Interested as an enthusiast/somewhat more casual user; been around on CGCC for a long time but I can't dedicate as much time depending on how busy moderating is on SE. — ‭HyperNeutrino

  • Interested as a casual. — Moshi

Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

6 comments

I'm interested as an enthusiast. Somewhat longtime participant of the original CGCC. Quintec‭ about 1 month ago

Interested as enthusiast/expert (whatever that means for code-golfing); Participated a lot on PPCG/CGCC. dzaima‭ about 1 month ago

Interested as enthusiast. manassehkatz‭ about 1 month ago

Interested as enthusiast Lyxal‭ about 1 month ago

Interested as enthusiast. Wasn't the most active on PPCG/CGCC, but i did answer several challenges, and enjoy seeing what answers people come up with. moony‭ about 1 month ago

Show 1 more comments
+5
−0

I have very limited experience in Code Golf. I have followed SE Code Golf for quite a while but rarely participated due to my limited skills.

That being said, one clear limitation in SE Code Golf is the Sandbox. The Sandbox is absolutely key, because a question really needs to be, as much as possible, just right before it is posted. The Sandbox is implemented as a single Meta Question with each potential Question being an Answer. That works, but is very limiting. In particular, you can't put Tags on Answers, so there is no practical way to search/organize the Sandbox entries. With a Codidact Sandbox Category, each potential Question would be a top level post (Question), with no Answers but with comments. That would give the same basic functionality as the SE Code Golf Meta Sandbox but add the ability to use Tags to search/organize.

In addition, we could potentially add a "Copy Post" function that would:

  • Copy the contents of the Question from Sandbox to Q&A.
  • Add an embedded link somewhere so that there would be a permanent connection between the regular Question and the original Sandbox Question.
Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

3 comments

You might be interested in my feature-request Categories should support a "closed by default" question setting. Canina‭ about 1 month ago

For your "copy post" function, it is possible, at least for a moderator, to move a post from one category to another. The post URL is independent of the category the post is in (the post ID does not change), so this solves everything except the reference back to within the sandbox area. Canina‭ about 1 month ago

@Canina Copy is, IMHO, far preferable to Move here. Aside from the "don't want to move the comments to a live Challenge" + "don't want to lose the Comments if they are important" conundrum, there is an advantage to having past proposed challenges (both those that were made live and those that weren't) visible in the Sandbox for reference. manassehkatz‭ about 1 month ago

+6
−1

This answer has been superseded by new developments.


Members of the Code Golf community have already created a site on TopAnswers. While this doesn't mean there can't be a site here, I would want to see a stronger show of support from members of the community. The golfers seem to be happy on TopAnswers, so we're not going to create this site right now. If circumstances change, or if the Code Golf community wants to have sites on both Codidact and TopAnswers in order to compare them, then we can revisit this then.

Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

2 comments

TopAnswers is an extremely inactive site for code golf right now. The only place that has continuous code golf activity is at Stack Exchange, and many of the veterans are against the site. A codidact community might rekindle their interest by a lot. Razetime‭ about 1 month ago

Thanks for bringing that up, @Razetime. I'm going to remove the status-declined tag, but we'll need to flesh out this proposal, gather a community, and talk with the TopAnswers folks. If TA is a good solution for golfing but folks just don't know about it, that's one class of problem. If there's something about TA that makes it not work well for this topic, I'd like to understand what that is -- gotta make sure we can meet those needs too, after all. So let's discuss in a spirit of friendship. Monica Cellio‭ about 1 month ago

+2
−0

I guess I'll go put my own suggestions in ;)

Suggestions:

Name: Code Games / Programming Games

I feel like for a name, "Code Golf and Coding Challenges" is too long. We're gonna have to somehow make it into a logo as well. I chose "Games" to promote the sense of friendly competition.

Also, because it's half as many letters as "Competitions".

Domain: code-games.codidact.com

Description

Our community for those who enjoy code golf and other recreational coding challenges.

(shamelessly using Quintec's idea but making it more like the other communities' descriptions)

Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

12 comments

Even though Code Golf is itself limiting (as noted elsewhere, there are Code Bowling, King of the Hill and other types of challenges), those two words immediately give the sense that (a) it is about writing code and (b) it is about fun & games. "Coding Challenges" by itself to me sounds more like "here are the toughest unanswered questions in Computer Science". Which might be a worthwhile site but is totally different. manassehkatz‭ about 1 month ago

@manassehkatz I can see your point, though I personally don't associate "Coding Challenges" with "unanswered problems in Computer Science". I basically just used "Coding Challenges" as the shortening of "Code Golf and Coding Challenges", but there are always other options (Programming Puzzles might be something to consider. I'm not opposed to just calling it Code Golf though, I just don't want visitors to think it's only code golf) Moshi‭ about 1 month ago

"Coding competitions" should get rid of the "unanswered problems" mindset, and convey the idea a bit more. dzaima‭ about 1 month ago

I like your description better than mine. I put it in my answer so we can focus on the key differences in our answers regarding name/domain. Quintec‭ about 1 month ago

@manassehkatz @dzaima How does my new proposal look? I'm still trying to keep the name short so we can hopefully keep it on one line for the banner. Also, I like short names Moshi‭ about 1 month ago

Show 7 more comments
+4
−1

Suggestions:

  • Name: Code Golf and Coding Challenges

    • Other option: Programming Puzzles and Code Golf (old)
  • URL: codegolf.codidact.com

  • Description: Our community for those who enjoy code golf and other recreational coding challenges.

Description stolen from Moshi's answer, because I like it a lot better.

Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

2 comments

While it isn't really a set format, you might want to look at the descriptions for other sites on https://codidact.com/ as inspiration for the CCCG description Moshi‭ about 1 month ago

The description on Codidact tends to be longer and can include the site name. Also, while "challenges" has been used in the past, I see it more as "competition" - i.e., a "challenge" is "make this work", a "competition" is "see who can make it work best". manassehkatz‭ about 1 month ago

+0
−7

Remove votes on code golf submissions

I believe votes have no place in code golf, only the language and byte counts of submissions should matter.

(My point does not stand for challenges nor for submissions to other challenge types, like King of the Hill).

Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

12 comments

Short answers aren't necessarily "interesting". Getting the smallest byte count of all answers isn't a goal in code golf challenges either. E.g. a Python submission would definitely be longer, than, say, Jelly, but has a chance of being much more interesting due to the restricted toolset, often leading to much cooler algorithms. dzaima‭ about 1 month ago

@dzaima I intended intra-language competition. But as you say, at times the shortest solution in a language is not as interesting as a longer one in the same language; in such cases both could coexist as separate submissions to the challenge and the author can always explain what makes that submission different. From my experience, with voting in play the incentives are misaligned and do not fit the spirit of code golf. user53100‭ about 1 month ago

Personally I'm fine with there being some incentive to "have fun". And the frequency of that being taken too far should be small enough for it to not be a big worry. Some mixed sorting system that pushes new answers above highest voted ones would be nice, but also would be somewhat harder to do right. dzaima‭ about 1 month ago

I disagree with this answer. The incentives with a voting system do not misalign with code golf, they merely enhance it. While I understand your point about intra-language competition, simply put, people want to know which answers they should look at when they see a question. Voting is a simple way to highlight exceptional answers regardless of character count or language. This is one of the things that has worked well on SE and I see no reason to change it. Quintec‭ about 1 month ago

Alongside all this, some things, like KoTHs, operate with voting in mind, incentivizing people to post really interesting answers, even if they're not particularly good at the actual challenge. I'd say an example of this is the Mandelbrant in Formic Functions, which proves it's possible to draw an image within the game, and is a really cool answer at that. But it's not exactly going to win any games! moony‭ about 1 month ago

Show 7 more comments

Sign up to answer this question »