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This is perhaps a longer term solution, with slightly broader scope than the question, but I'm mentioning it for consideration since the question made me think of it. It still makes sense to implem...
Answer
#6: Post edited
by
trichoplax
·
2023-08-14T13:17:18Z (over 1 year ago)
Link to 5 tag limit Meta post
- This is perhaps a longer term solution, with slightly broader scope than the question, but I'm mentioning it for consideration since the question made me think of it. It still makes sense to implement the more specific changes suggested in the question in the meantime.
- ## Trust, but implement undo
- ### Non-destructive changes
- Make tag management more reversible. If we make it possible to undo the changes that are currently considered destructive, then there will be less need to keep them admin-only or moderator-only. Even deletion of an in-use tag could be reversible.
- ### Tag history
- This should also make tags more auditable. Undo requires a history. If we keep a history for each tag, it will be easier to analyse incorrect usage of the tag management abilities (whether malicious or unintentional).
- ### Trust more people
- This may make it feasible to extend some of the tag management abilities to even more people than suggested in the question.
- For example:
- - Deleting a tag that is in use (has live questions) is currently admin only. With undo it could be made available to moderators too.
- - Renaming a tag is currently moderator only. The question hesitantly suggests allowing users with the Edit Tags ability to do this too. With undo we wouldn't need to be as hesitant.
- Note that new users would still need to earn the Edit Tags ability. Undo wouldn't mean trusting everyone immediately. It would just allow trusting a user a little sooner.
- ## No more 5 tag limit
- ### The problem
- If a post has 5 tags, and then one of the tags is deleted (so it disappears from all posts), now the post has only 4 tags. This means another tag can be added to it, so it has 5 tags again. This causes a problem if the deleted tag is restored: It should now reappear on all the posts it disappeared from, but that would give this post 6 tags.
- ### The solution
- Removing the limit on number of tags removes this problem.
- Now deleting a tag can be a non-destructive action that simply labels the tag as "deleted" in the database. Each post that previously had that tag still points to it in the database, but only live tags (those not labelled as "deleted") will be visible under a post in the user interface.
- ### More reasons for no limit
- The 5 tag limit is arbitrary and artificial - there is no reason to settle on 5 rather than 4 or 6. This is a vestigial artefact carried over from Stack Exchange, which we can discard when we are ready to.
- There is such a thing as too many tags on a post, but how many is too many will vary from post to post. This is a subjective decision which should be managed by the community using human judgement, rather than being encoded as a fixed limit.
- Other examples of where removing the 5 tag limit would be helpful:
- - A Meta post that already has 5 tags can have a "status-completed" tag added without having to remove one of the existing tags.
- A Proposals post can have 5 tags in addition to its proposed community name tag, rather than Proposals posts being unintentionally limited to 4 tags.
- This is perhaps a longer term solution, with slightly broader scope than the question, but I'm mentioning it for consideration since the question made me think of it. It still makes sense to implement the more specific changes suggested in the question in the meantime.
- ## Trust, but implement undo
- ### Non-destructive changes
- Make tag management more reversible. If we make it possible to undo the changes that are currently considered destructive, then there will be less need to keep them admin-only or moderator-only. Even deletion of an in-use tag could be reversible.
- ### Tag history
- This should also make tags more auditable. Undo requires a history. If we keep a history for each tag, it will be easier to analyse incorrect usage of the tag management abilities (whether malicious or unintentional).
- ### Trust more people
- This may make it feasible to extend some of the tag management abilities to even more people than suggested in the question.
- For example:
- - Deleting a tag that is in use (has live questions) is currently admin only. With undo it could be made available to moderators too.
- - Renaming a tag is currently moderator only. The question hesitantly suggests allowing users with the Edit Tags ability to do this too. With undo we wouldn't need to be as hesitant.
- Note that new users would still need to earn the Edit Tags ability. Undo wouldn't mean trusting everyone immediately. It would just allow trusting a user a little sooner.
- ## No more 5 tag limit
- ### The problem
- If a post has 5 tags, and then one of the tags is deleted (so it disappears from all posts), now the post has only 4 tags. This means another tag can be added to it, so it has 5 tags again. This causes a problem if the deleted tag is restored: It should now reappear on all the posts it disappeared from, but that would give this post 6 tags.
- ### The solution
- Removing the limit on number of tags removes this problem.
- Now deleting a tag can be a non-destructive action that simply labels the tag as "deleted" in the database. Each post that previously had that tag still points to it in the database, but only live tags (those not labelled as "deleted") will be visible under a post in the user interface.
- ### More reasons for no limit
- The 5 tag limit is arbitrary and artificial - there is no reason to settle on 5 rather than 4 or 6. This is a vestigial artefact carried over from Stack Exchange, which we can discard when we are ready to.
- There is such a thing as too many tags on a post, but how many is too many will vary from post to post. This is a subjective decision which should be managed by the community using human judgement, rather than being encoded as a fixed limit.
- Other examples of where removing the 5 tag limit would be helpful:
- - A Meta post that already has 5 tags can have a "status-completed" tag added without having to remove one of the existing tags.
- - A Proposals post can have 5 tags in addition to its proposed community name tag, rather than Proposals posts being unintentionally limited to 4 tags.
- As there is more than 1 reason to consider changing the 5 tag limit, I have also raised a separate Meta discussion [Assessing the 5 tag limit](https://meta.codidact.com/posts/289364).
#5: Post edited
by
trichoplax
·
2023-08-14T13:08:02Z (over 1 year ago)
Clarify that this wouldn't mean trusting everyone
- This is perhaps a longer term solution, with slightly broader scope than the question, but I'm mentioning it for consideration since the question made me think of it. It still makes sense to implement the more specific changes suggested in the question in the meantime.
- ## Trust, but implement undo
- ### Non-destructive changes
- Make tag management more reversible. If we make it possible to undo the changes that are currently considered destructive, then there will be less need to keep them admin-only or moderator-only. Even deletion of an in-use tag could be reversible.
- ### Tag history
- This should also make tags more auditable. Undo requires a history. If we keep a history for each tag, it will be easier to analyse incorrect usage of the tag management abilities (whether malicious or unintentional).
- ### Trust more people
- This may make it feasible to extend some of the tag management abilities to even more people than suggested in the question.
- ## No more 5 tag limit
- ### The problem
- If a post has 5 tags, and then one of the tags is deleted (so it disappears from all posts), now the post has only 4 tags. This means another tag can be added to it, so it has 5 tags again. This causes a problem if the deleted tag is restored: It should now reappear on all the posts it disappeared from, but that would give this post 6 tags.
- ### The solution
- Removing the limit on number of tags removes this problem.
- Now deleting a tag can be a non-destructive action that simply labels the tag as "deleted" in the database. Each post that previously had that tag still points to it in the database, but only live tags (those not labelled as "deleted") will be visible under a post in the user interface.
- ### More reasons for no limit
- The 5 tag limit is arbitrary and artificial - there is no reason to settle on 5 rather than 4 or 6. This is a vestigial artefact carried over from Stack Exchange, which we can discard when we are ready to.
- There is such a thing as too many tags on a post, but how many is too many will vary from post to post. This is a subjective decision which should be managed by the community using human judgement, rather than being encoded as a fixed limit.
- Other examples of where removing the 5 tag limit would be helpful:
- - A Meta post that already has 5 tags can have a "status-completed" tag added without having to remove one of the existing tags.
- - A Proposals post can have 5 tags in addition to its proposed community name tag, rather than Proposals posts being unintentionally limited to 4 tags.
- This is perhaps a longer term solution, with slightly broader scope than the question, but I'm mentioning it for consideration since the question made me think of it. It still makes sense to implement the more specific changes suggested in the question in the meantime.
- ## Trust, but implement undo
- ### Non-destructive changes
- Make tag management more reversible. If we make it possible to undo the changes that are currently considered destructive, then there will be less need to keep them admin-only or moderator-only. Even deletion of an in-use tag could be reversible.
- ### Tag history
- This should also make tags more auditable. Undo requires a history. If we keep a history for each tag, it will be easier to analyse incorrect usage of the tag management abilities (whether malicious or unintentional).
- ### Trust more people
- This may make it feasible to extend some of the tag management abilities to even more people than suggested in the question.
- For example:
- - Deleting a tag that is in use (has live questions) is currently admin only. With undo it could be made available to moderators too.
- - Renaming a tag is currently moderator only. The question hesitantly suggests allowing users with the Edit Tags ability to do this too. With undo we wouldn't need to be as hesitant.
- Note that new users would still need to earn the Edit Tags ability. Undo wouldn't mean trusting everyone immediately. It would just allow trusting a user a little sooner.
- ## No more 5 tag limit
- ### The problem
- If a post has 5 tags, and then one of the tags is deleted (so it disappears from all posts), now the post has only 4 tags. This means another tag can be added to it, so it has 5 tags again. This causes a problem if the deleted tag is restored: It should now reappear on all the posts it disappeared from, but that would give this post 6 tags.
- ### The solution
- Removing the limit on number of tags removes this problem.
- Now deleting a tag can be a non-destructive action that simply labels the tag as "deleted" in the database. Each post that previously had that tag still points to it in the database, but only live tags (those not labelled as "deleted") will be visible under a post in the user interface.
- ### More reasons for no limit
- The 5 tag limit is arbitrary and artificial - there is no reason to settle on 5 rather than 4 or 6. This is a vestigial artefact carried over from Stack Exchange, which we can discard when we are ready to.
- There is such a thing as too many tags on a post, but how many is too many will vary from post to post. This is a subjective decision which should be managed by the community using human judgement, rather than being encoded as a fixed limit.
- Other examples of where removing the 5 tag limit would be helpful:
- - A Meta post that already has 5 tags can have a "status-completed" tag added without having to remove one of the existing tags.
- - A Proposals post can have 5 tags in addition to its proposed community name tag, rather than Proposals posts being unintentionally limited to 4 tags.
#4: Post edited
by
trichoplax
·
2023-08-13T23:45:42Z (over 1 year ago)
Fine tuning
This is perhaps a longer term solution, but I'm mentioning it for consideration since the question made me think of it. It still makes sense to implement the changes suggested in the question in the meantime.- ## Trust, but implement undo
- ### Non-destructive changes
Make tag management more reversible. If we make it possible to undo the changes that are currently considered destructive, then there will be less need to keep them admin-only or moderator-only.- ### Tag history
- This should also make tags more auditable. Undo requires a history. If we keep a history for each tag, it will be easier to analyse incorrect usage of the tag management abilities (whether malicious or unintentional).
- ### Trust more people
- This may make it feasible to extend some of the tag management abilities to even more people than suggested in the question.
- ## No more 5 tag limit
- ### The problem
- If a post has 5 tags, and then one of the tags is deleted (so it disappears from all posts), now the post has only 4 tags. This means another tag can be added to it, so it has 5 tags again. This causes a problem if the deleted tag is restored: It should now reappear on all the posts it disappeared from, but that would give this post 6 tags.
- ### The solution
- Removing the limit on number of tags removes this problem.
- Now deleting a tag can be a non-destructive action that simply labels the tag as "deleted" in the database. Each post that previously had that tag still points to it in the database, but only live tags (those not labelled as "deleted") will be visible under a post in the user interface.
- ### More reasons for no limit
- The 5 tag limit is arbitrary and artificial - there is no reason to settle on 5 rather than 4 or 6. This is a vestigial artefact carried over from Stack Exchange, which we can discard when we are ready to.
- There is such a thing as too many tags on a post, but how many is too many will vary from post to post. This is a subjective decision which should be managed by the community using human judgement, rather than being encoded as a fixed limit.
Other examples of where lifting the 5 tag limit would be helpful:- - A Meta post that already has 5 tags can have a "status-completed" tag added without having to remove one of the existing tags.
- - A Proposals post can have 5 tags in addition to its proposed community name tag, rather than Proposals posts being unintentionally limited to 4 tags.
- This is perhaps a longer term solution, with slightly broader scope than the question, but I'm mentioning it for consideration since the question made me think of it. It still makes sense to implement the more specific changes suggested in the question in the meantime.
- ## Trust, but implement undo
- ### Non-destructive changes
- Make tag management more reversible. If we make it possible to undo the changes that are currently considered destructive, then there will be less need to keep them admin-only or moderator-only. Even deletion of an in-use tag could be reversible.
- ### Tag history
- This should also make tags more auditable. Undo requires a history. If we keep a history for each tag, it will be easier to analyse incorrect usage of the tag management abilities (whether malicious or unintentional).
- ### Trust more people
- This may make it feasible to extend some of the tag management abilities to even more people than suggested in the question.
- ## No more 5 tag limit
- ### The problem
- If a post has 5 tags, and then one of the tags is deleted (so it disappears from all posts), now the post has only 4 tags. This means another tag can be added to it, so it has 5 tags again. This causes a problem if the deleted tag is restored: It should now reappear on all the posts it disappeared from, but that would give this post 6 tags.
- ### The solution
- Removing the limit on number of tags removes this problem.
- Now deleting a tag can be a non-destructive action that simply labels the tag as "deleted" in the database. Each post that previously had that tag still points to it in the database, but only live tags (those not labelled as "deleted") will be visible under a post in the user interface.
- ### More reasons for no limit
- The 5 tag limit is arbitrary and artificial - there is no reason to settle on 5 rather than 4 or 6. This is a vestigial artefact carried over from Stack Exchange, which we can discard when we are ready to.
- There is such a thing as too many tags on a post, but how many is too many will vary from post to post. This is a subjective decision which should be managed by the community using human judgement, rather than being encoded as a fixed limit.
- Other examples of where removing the 5 tag limit would be helpful:
- - A Meta post that already has 5 tags can have a "status-completed" tag added without having to remove one of the existing tags.
- - A Proposals post can have 5 tags in addition to its proposed community name tag, rather than Proposals posts being unintentionally limited to 4 tags.
#3: Post edited
by
trichoplax
·
2023-08-13T23:36:54Z (over 1 year ago)
Improve structure
- This is perhaps a longer term solution, but I'm mentioning it for consideration since the question made me think of it. It still makes sense to implement the changes suggested in the question in the meantime.
- ## Trust, but implement undo
- ### Non-destructive changes
Make tag management more reversible. If we make it possible to undo the changes that are currently considered destructive, then it will be easier to trust more people with the abilities mentioned.- ### Tag history
- This should also make tags more auditable. Undo requires a history. If we keep a history for each tag, it will be easier to analyse incorrect usage of the tag management abilities (whether malicious or unintentional).
- ### Trust more people
- This may make it feasible to extend some of the tag management abilities to even more people than suggested in the question.
- ## No more 5 tag limit
- ### The problem
- If a post has 5 tags, and then one of the tags is deleted (so it disappears from all posts), now the post has only 4 tags. This means another tag can be added to it, so it has 5 tags again. This causes a problem if the deleted tag is restored: It should now reappear on all the posts it disappeared from, but that would give this post 6 tags.
- ### The solution
- Removing the limit on number of tags removes this problem.
- Now deleting a tag can be a non-destructive action that simply labels the tag as "deleted" in the database. Each post that previously had that tag still points to it in the database, but only live tags (those not labelled as "deleted") will be visible under a post in the user interface.
- ### More reasons for no limit
- The 5 tag limit is arbitrary and artificial - there is no reason to settle on 5 rather than 4 or 6. This is a vestigial artefact carried over from Stack Exchange, which we can discard when we are ready to.
- There is such a thing as too many tags on a post, but how many is too many will vary from post to post. This is a subjective decision which should be managed by the community using human judgement, rather than being encoded as a fixed limit.
- Other examples of where lifting the 5 tag limit would be helpful:
- - A Meta post that already has 5 tags can have a "status-completed" tag added without having to remove one of the existing tags.
- - A Proposals post can have 5 tags in addition to its proposed community name tag, rather than Proposals posts being unintentionally limited to 4 tags.
- This is perhaps a longer term solution, but I'm mentioning it for consideration since the question made me think of it. It still makes sense to implement the changes suggested in the question in the meantime.
- ## Trust, but implement undo
- ### Non-destructive changes
- Make tag management more reversible. If we make it possible to undo the changes that are currently considered destructive, then there will be less need to keep them admin-only or moderator-only.
- ### Tag history
- This should also make tags more auditable. Undo requires a history. If we keep a history for each tag, it will be easier to analyse incorrect usage of the tag management abilities (whether malicious or unintentional).
- ### Trust more people
- This may make it feasible to extend some of the tag management abilities to even more people than suggested in the question.
- ## No more 5 tag limit
- ### The problem
- If a post has 5 tags, and then one of the tags is deleted (so it disappears from all posts), now the post has only 4 tags. This means another tag can be added to it, so it has 5 tags again. This causes a problem if the deleted tag is restored: It should now reappear on all the posts it disappeared from, but that would give this post 6 tags.
- ### The solution
- Removing the limit on number of tags removes this problem.
- Now deleting a tag can be a non-destructive action that simply labels the tag as "deleted" in the database. Each post that previously had that tag still points to it in the database, but only live tags (those not labelled as "deleted") will be visible under a post in the user interface.
- ### More reasons for no limit
- The 5 tag limit is arbitrary and artificial - there is no reason to settle on 5 rather than 4 or 6. This is a vestigial artefact carried over from Stack Exchange, which we can discard when we are ready to.
- There is such a thing as too many tags on a post, but how many is too many will vary from post to post. This is a subjective decision which should be managed by the community using human judgement, rather than being encoded as a fixed limit.
- Other examples of where lifting the 5 tag limit would be helpful:
- - A Meta post that already has 5 tags can have a "status-completed" tag added without having to remove one of the existing tags.
- - A Proposals post can have 5 tags in addition to its proposed community name tag, rather than Proposals posts being unintentionally limited to 4 tags.
#2: Post edited
by
trichoplax
·
2023-08-13T23:33:03Z (over 1 year ago)
Add subheadings for ease of reference
- This is perhaps a longer term solution, but I'm mentioning it for consideration since the question made me think of it. It still makes sense to implement the changes suggested in the question in the meantime.
- ## Trust, but implement undo
- Make tag management more reversible. If we make it possible to undo the changes that are currently considered destructive, then it will be easier to trust more people with the abilities mentioned.
- This should also make tags more auditable. Undo requires a history. If we keep a history for each tag, it will be easier to analyse incorrect usage of the tag management abilities (whether malicious or unintentional).
- This may make it feasible to extend some of the tag management abilities to even more people than suggested in the question.
- ## No more 5 tag limit
- If a post has 5 tags, and then one of the tags is deleted (so it disappears from all posts), now the post has only 4 tags. This means another tag can be added to it, so it has 5 tags again. This causes a problem if the deleted tag is restored: It should now reappear on all the posts it disappeared from, but that would give this post 6 tags.
- Removing the limit on number of tags removes this problem.
- Now deleting a tag can be a non-destructive action that simply labels the tag as "deleted" in the database. Each post that previously had that tag still points to it in the database, but only live tags (those not labelled as "deleted") will be visible under a post in the user interface.
- The 5 tag limit is arbitrary and artificial - there is no reason to settle on 5 rather than 4 or 6. This is a vestigial artefact carried over from Stack Exchange, which we can discard when we are ready to.
- There is such a thing as too many tags on a post, but how many is too many will vary from post to post. This is a subjective decision which should be managed by the community using human judgement, rather than being encoded as a fixed limit.
- Other examples of where lifting the 5 tag limit would be helpful:
- - A Meta post that already has 5 tags can have a "status-completed" tag added without having to remove one of the existing tags.
- - A Proposals post can have 5 tags in addition to its proposed community name tag, rather than Proposals posts being unintentionally limited to 4 tags.
- This is perhaps a longer term solution, but I'm mentioning it for consideration since the question made me think of it. It still makes sense to implement the changes suggested in the question in the meantime.
- ## Trust, but implement undo
- ### Non-destructive changes
- Make tag management more reversible. If we make it possible to undo the changes that are currently considered destructive, then it will be easier to trust more people with the abilities mentioned.
- ### Tag history
- This should also make tags more auditable. Undo requires a history. If we keep a history for each tag, it will be easier to analyse incorrect usage of the tag management abilities (whether malicious or unintentional).
- ### Trust more people
- This may make it feasible to extend some of the tag management abilities to even more people than suggested in the question.
- ## No more 5 tag limit
- ### The problem
- If a post has 5 tags, and then one of the tags is deleted (so it disappears from all posts), now the post has only 4 tags. This means another tag can be added to it, so it has 5 tags again. This causes a problem if the deleted tag is restored: It should now reappear on all the posts it disappeared from, but that would give this post 6 tags.
- ### The solution
- Removing the limit on number of tags removes this problem.
- Now deleting a tag can be a non-destructive action that simply labels the tag as "deleted" in the database. Each post that previously had that tag still points to it in the database, but only live tags (those not labelled as "deleted") will be visible under a post in the user interface.
- ### More reasons for no limit
- The 5 tag limit is arbitrary and artificial - there is no reason to settle on 5 rather than 4 or 6. This is a vestigial artefact carried over from Stack Exchange, which we can discard when we are ready to.
- There is such a thing as too many tags on a post, but how many is too many will vary from post to post. This is a subjective decision which should be managed by the community using human judgement, rather than being encoded as a fixed limit.
- Other examples of where lifting the 5 tag limit would be helpful:
- - A Meta post that already has 5 tags can have a "status-completed" tag added without having to remove one of the existing tags.
- - A Proposals post can have 5 tags in addition to its proposed community name tag, rather than Proposals posts being unintentionally limited to 4 tags.
#1: Initial revision
by
trichoplax
·
2023-08-13T23:20:54Z (over 1 year ago)
This is perhaps a longer term solution, but I'm mentioning it for consideration since the question made me think of it. It still makes sense to implement the changes suggested in the question in the meantime. ## Trust, but implement undo Make tag management more reversible. If we make it possible to undo the changes that are currently considered destructive, then it will be easier to trust more people with the abilities mentioned. This should also make tags more auditable. Undo requires a history. If we keep a history for each tag, it will be easier to analyse incorrect usage of the tag management abilities (whether malicious or unintentional). This may make it feasible to extend some of the tag management abilities to even more people than suggested in the question. ## No more 5 tag limit If a post has 5 tags, and then one of the tags is deleted (so it disappears from all posts), now the post has only 4 tags. This means another tag can be added to it, so it has 5 tags again. This causes a problem if the deleted tag is restored: It should now reappear on all the posts it disappeared from, but that would give this post 6 tags. Removing the limit on number of tags removes this problem. Now deleting a tag can be a non-destructive action that simply labels the tag as "deleted" in the database. Each post that previously had that tag still points to it in the database, but only live tags (those not labelled as "deleted") will be visible under a post in the user interface. The 5 tag limit is arbitrary and artificial - there is no reason to settle on 5 rather than 4 or 6. This is a vestigial artefact carried over from Stack Exchange, which we can discard when we are ready to. There is such a thing as too many tags on a post, but how many is too many will vary from post to post. This is a subjective decision which should be managed by the community using human judgement, rather than being encoded as a fixed limit. Other examples of where lifting the 5 tag limit would be helpful: - A Meta post that already has 5 tags can have a "status-completed" tag added without having to remove one of the existing tags. - A Proposals post can have 5 tags in addition to its proposed community name tag, rather than Proposals posts being unintentionally limited to 4 tags.