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Comments on Why was this answer to the volunteer-discussion removed?

Parent

Why was this answer to the volunteer-discussion removed?

+4
−2

For what reasons post (answer or question) might be removed by moderator / staff ?

I do not ask about obvious reasons like spam, off-topic, base rule violations, etc here.

Context: history.

history

Obviously, author of the post wasn't agreed with decision.

To my opinion this answer is bad: hasty and rash. I, personally, would suggest removing it to its author. But I see no reason to delete it forcefully.

In the answer that I've referenced above author merely expressed they opinion: no more. They might be completely wrong but they has rights to express it freely, isn't it ?

History
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1 comment thread

General comments (6 comments)
Post
+7
−0

That answer (and this meta question) prompted a lot of discussion. This discussion is a good outcome. We are by the community, for the community, which means if the community questions what we're doing, we need to discuss that. We don't need to keep engaging if someone is clearly out to be disruptive (i.e. don't feed the trolls), but that's not what happened here. I think we have a group of people who care deeply about Codidact and its communities (good!) who don't always agree (expected!) and who vary in how they express themselves (also expected).

The answer, especially in the broader context of the question (from the same author) and other activity, came across as disrespectful bordering on personal attack. Criticism of decisions is fine, and encouraged -- if you see something that concerns you, bring it up! But criticism still needs to be constructive, and "you should all step down and give me complete power" doesn't sound very constructive. What productive responses could we expect from that?

When faced with a moderation issue we strive to take the smallest action that fixes the problem. A single rude comment? Delete it. An otherwise-ok post with some problematic content? Edit it. A user skirting the boundaries of acceptable behavior? Send a warning. Somebody suddenly going wild with inappropriate behavior (drunk, compromised account, whatever)? Suspend to stop the damage and then discuss. And so on.

This answer attracted flags and struck several team members as being on the wrong side of the line. Deleting it seemed the best response in the moment. But the issue can be fixed with an edit, allowing the post to be undeleted, so we have done that. The edit removed one problematic paragraph and also changed some talk-about-yourself-in-the-third-person language that was obfuscating this self-answer.

Codidact is a volunteer-run project. The team members care deeply about Codidact. We are not instantly available when there is a problem. That would be true even if we were employees, because people sleep and have families and stuff like that. I'd like to point out that I and several others took an hour out of our work days to respond to this situation instead of deferring it. We are here to work together with the community as we all work through growth, policies, and features. Let's all try to keep it constructive; it's entirely possible to express strong contrary opinions without making it personal.

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1 comment thread

General comments (14 comments)
General comments
MathPhysics‭ wrote about 4 years ago

"The answer, especially in the broader context of the question (from the same author) and other activity, came across as disrespectful bordering on personal attack" is obviously a false claim. I always use respectful language in my posts, which is completely clear in my posts on Meta. Some community team only claim that my post is disrespectful without showing any evidence.

MathPhysics‭ wrote about 4 years ago · edited about 4 years ago

"You should all step down and give me complete power" is another false claim; I never said that. I only mentioned a sentence in parentheses stating that if you are unable to find unpaid employees, I can do that in case I have some authority. I mentioned such a statement only because of preventing some people asking me to show unpaid employees. In fact, only viewing a sentence in parentheses and ignoring the main text is not constructive.

FoggyFinder‭ wrote about 4 years ago

@MathPhysics May I give you an advice? Do not attempt to edit current redaction of the answer over and over since you obviously noticed the discussion here. It's not constructive way to communicate.

FoggyFinder‭ wrote about 4 years ago · edited about 4 years ago

@MathPhysics only claim that my post is disrespectful without showing any evidence. Your last paragraph is arguable and doesn't add anything useful to the answer. It also has statement with no proof: However, why do they insist on continuing their staff role while they are too busy?. It is not a personal attack but it is still disrespectful. While I personally think you can have and express whatever opinion you want (even disrespectful) I understand other position as well.

FoggyFinder‭ wrote about 4 years ago

@MathPhysics Least valuable part of the answer was removed. The main idea is stayed unchanged. As you can see moderators heard arguments and reacted accordingly. So I consider current decision as perfect compromise. You should agree that your original version wasn't perceived well by community (including the staff members). I mean: downvotes, deletion, and negative feedback. Therefore I do not see why you have to insist on reverting changes to original version. It would be just wasting of time.

MathPhysics‭ wrote about 4 years ago

@FoggyFinder Firstly, you do not need to ask for my permission to advise me; even, any offensive disrespectful nonconstructive criticism would be welcomed. Secondly, my last paragraph is the most important part of my answer; I would not have posted my answer if that part had not been to be put. By the way, I did not revert the changes to original version of my answer after receiving a serious warning from the moderator; my last activity on the thread was editing the question, not the answer.

MathPhysics‭ wrote about 4 years ago

Thirdly, the sentence you quoted is a professional advice to the community team. I reread it many times, and I cannot find any disrespect in it. Some of the community team stated somewhere in my thread that they are busy and they can devote only their free time to Codidact, so I advised them either to be Codidact chairmen or continue to Codidact as regular users, not as staff,because,in my opinion, managing a successful big community needed to be prioritized by the community team.(Continued)

MathPhysics‭ wrote about 4 years ago

@FoggyFinder (Continued) Please see some comment under the below answer: "The post is however classic internet trolling: not interested in contributing constructively but posting for the sole reason to cause conflict and drama." Such a comment has not been considered as disrespectful; then, my sentence is disrespectful?! In fact, my post(s) is (are) not disrespectful; there exists some other reason to remove the part of my post.

FoggyFinder‭ wrote about 4 years ago

@MathPhysics I did not revert the changes to original version I'm really appreciate it

FoggyFinder‭ wrote about 4 years ago

@MathPhysics I reread it many times, and I cannot find any disrespect in it. I'll try to explain. It's disrespectful cause there is no proof to your words. There is a big difference between "busy" (expected) and "too busy". While you're busy you can still spend some time to improve the project. And that's exactly what we've been seeing now. Moreover there are answers from some staff members that say just that. Therefore it's unclear why you got to your conclusions. (1/x)

FoggyFinder‭ wrote about 4 years ago · edited about 4 years ago

The second ("too busy") implies that one doesn't have time at all and/or they even doesn't bother about project's future. "most (all) community staff <...> are too busy" - looks like ungrounded statement. This project exists cause staff spend hours and hours of unpaid time to create something that we all can use. Therefore it's disrespectful. (2/2)

MathPhysics‭ wrote about 4 years ago

@FoggyFinder Sorry, I cannot accept your implication. Let us allow the author of the post clarify what they meant.In fact, the clause after "too busy",which can be easily understood from the rest of the text, was ellipted.The sentence without any ellipsis is :"they are too busy to consider Codidact as their first priorities".Also, this fact is not ungrounded, as you can see from the answer below: "the entire team, the entire Codidact team has stated that they have other priorities aside from CD"

Mithrandir24601‭ wrote about 4 years ago

A little note: "any offensive disrespectful nonconstructive criticism would be welcomed". We've had this discussion already, nonconstructive criticism isn't really acceptable

FoggyFinder‭ wrote about 4 years ago

@MathPhysics Let us allow the author of the post clarify what they meant Yep. I see no issues with clarification. But you haven't done that. You didn't change the text after you read comments on the answer. You didn't change the text after first removal. It was obvious that people is confused by the paragraph. If someone notes (with arguments) that your sentences is provocative, insulting, etc even if you disagree with it try to repharse it to avoid meaningless discussion.